Are these more E Class or Charger underneath?

"djmt1" (djmt1) 03/02/2016 at 10:50 • Filed to: Oi Yanks!

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Saw one the other day. It’s bloody massive.

Also saw this which was kinda small.

CB > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:52

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The 300 Touring was all Dodge Magnum underneath.

Also, I’d take that Charger in a heartbeat.

djmt1 > CB 03/02/2016 at 10:53

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Magnum was the Charger estate wasn’t it?

CB > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:54

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Sure was!

Alfalfa > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:54

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Many people think so, but nope. It was a shared platform with the 300.

djmt1 > Alfalfa 03/02/2016 at 10:56

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So the 300 and Charger don't share a Platform then?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:57

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Platform yes, but there are more matching parts 300 to Magnum than Charger to Magnum

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:59

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MERC MUSCLE! (or pony anyhow)

Yea the Cougar is small, it’s Mustang size.

People are always saying how giant my Montego is, but it’s not that long and it’s skinny. Cougar is definitely skinny.

That generation of Cougar/Stang was very small.

Now imagine how fun they’d be to drive giving how small they are and commonly coming with 302's and 351's. Especially giving the 302 is a blast in the Montego.

Alfalfa > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 10:59

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Well technically yes, but the 300 was the first LX platform, the Charger came out a year after the magnum and 300.

djmt1 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 03/02/2016 at 10:59

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Hmm... so if I wanted to have a RHD Magnum would it be possible to put a Magnum front end on to a 300 Touring without much effort?

zeontestpilot > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:08

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Magnum to 300, yes. Same size. Magnum is just a rebadged 300 wagon, :).

AfromanGTO > zeontestpilot 03/02/2016 at 11:14

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Other way around. 300 wagon is just a Magnum with a 300 nose and emblems. Remember they never made 300 wagons in the US only Magnums. I saw Magnum converted to a 300 wagon at a car show years ago.

zeontestpilot > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:15

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The platform itself is Chrysler, but many components are of Mercedes; like the differential, rear suspension, the firewall, etc. All available engine options are Chrysler though. Curiously, the 4-speed tranny is Chrysler while the 5-speed is Mercedes. Essentially they cherry-picked the parts.

Source: Wikipedia

AfromanGTO > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:15

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They are the LX platform which started out life as an E class chassis.

dogisbadob > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:15

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same thing, since the 300/Magnum is just a rebodied W210, with some w140 shit for good measure.

In fact, the Magnum SRT8's rear end is straight out of the w210 E55, stamped Made in Germany.

The 300 wagon is a Magnum with the 300's front end. The 300 and Magnum are exactly the same except the 300 is a sedan an the Magnum is a wagon. The Charger is a different body on the same chassis.

Ash78, voting early and often > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:17

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I believe the only real Merc connection is some of the suspension components from the W210(?) from the late 90s, early 2000s. Which is a good thing, those cars rode and handled very well.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:20

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Both are based on E-class, I think the suspension & floorpan were lifted directly from the merc

Cé hé sin > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:23

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Hired a 300 once (free upgrade).

Can confirm massive. Can also confirm 3.7 litre petrol engine provides less go than the 2 litre in my FTO. Surprisingly economical though.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:24

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The Cougar isn’t massive - in fact it’s very sleek - , but it’s still worth mentioning, that this rather small coupe (we’re talking American dimensions here) is practically as big as my E34 520i Touring...

zeontestpilot > AfromanGTO 03/02/2016 at 11:30

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I can’t find my original source, and any info I do dig up varies by what the writer thinks.:p

And you’re correct, a 300 wagon was not sold In the US (though my father-in-law, who works for Chrysler, says some factory workers had magnums with 300 front ends installed at the factory).

Let's just agree that they are the same car, since any official source cannot be found.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:31

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I would imagine you’d have a hell of a better time attaching the Magnum front end to a 300 touring than attaching a charger front end to it.

Like I said underneath they match up more than the charger/300. I’m no expert on them bolt to bolt though.

JGrabowMSt > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:41

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Massive? Really? I DD and park mine all over the place like it’s nothing. A Ford Excursion is big.

Wohnson89 > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 11:46

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Here is where a 300 front end was put on a magnum.

deprecated account > CB 03/02/2016 at 11:56

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The one on the bottom is an old Cougar...

AfromanGTO > zeontestpilot 03/02/2016 at 11:59

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They are the same exact car. I agree with you on that one. Only different emblems. Much like the Holden Commodore and Chevy SS. lol

CB > deprecated account 03/02/2016 at 12:06

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Thanks. Pardon me, I have the dumbs today. I saw the headlights and immediately thought “Charger”.

I’d take it anyway.

zeontestpilot > AfromanGTO 03/02/2016 at 12:08

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Or the Pontiac G8 or the current Chevy Caprice...how many rebadged Commodores can they make? Lol.

deprecated account > CB 03/02/2016 at 12:13

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Hey, happens to everyone. I’d take one too!

AfromanGTO > zeontestpilot 03/02/2016 at 12:13

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Well the GTO was the Monaro which is the shortened Commodore chassis. The Caprice is the Caprice which is a longer wheel based Commodore. The G8 was the VE Commodore, and now the SS is the VF. So 4 technically.

zeontestpilot > AfromanGTO 03/02/2016 at 12:15

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Did not know the Monaro was a shorten Commodore chassis , cool.

AfromanGTO > zeontestpilot 03/02/2016 at 12:38

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The Commodore chassis was originally designed by Opel, although it was slightly modified for the Aussie market, and one of the Opel that used that chassis was sold here in the US. It was sold as the Cadillac Catera! lol

DanZman > djmt1 03/02/2016 at 13:18

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From what I understand it's just bolts. People do the opposite conversion in the states all the time.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > AfromanGTO 03/02/2016 at 14:28

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False. The LX started out as the FWD LH, which was designed to be FWD or RWD right from the start.

The only things that are Mercedes is the 5 speed automatic, the rear suspension and a few other bits.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > dogisbadob 03/02/2016 at 14:29

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False. The LX started out as the FWD LH, which was designed to be FWD or RWD right from the start.

The only things that are Mercedes is the 5 speed automatic, the rear suspension and a few other bits.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 03/02/2016 at 14:29

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False. The LX started out as the FWD LH, which was designed to be FWD or RWD right from the start.

The only things that are Mercedes is the 5 speed automatic, the rear suspension and a few other bits.

AfromanGTO > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/03/2016 at 14:42

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No, sweet heart you’re not right. Please read below.

“The LX was developed in America to supersede the previous Chrysler LH platform , which had been designed to allow it to be easily upgraded to rear and all-wheel drive. Many Mercedes components were incorporated, including the Mercedes-Benz W220 S-class control arm front suspension, the Mercedes-Benz W211 [1] E-Class 5-link rear suspension, the firewall and floor pan, the W5A580 5-speed automatic, the rear differential, and the ESP system. ”

Yeah other bits. I guess these parts Mercedes made like the entire damn floor pan, firewall, front control arms, 5 link rear suspension, auto tranny, rear diff, and ESP (traction and stability control(abs too?)) aren’t considered the chassis.... Put down the manwhich and make a real burger. ;-)

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > AfromanGTO 03/03/2016 at 15:26

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Sorry... but you are wrong... only 20% of the parts were from Mercedes and the decision to go RWD was made BEFORE the merger:

http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/

And according to Burk Brown, the LX car lead designer:

“At the time, and probably still, a lot of people think is that we were just given the old E-class stuff, and that’s not true at all.”

I suggest you read the whole interview so you have the complete story right from the source:

http://www.allpar.com/history/interv…

And as you can see, they chose to use Mercedes parts because it was more cost effective to use what was available within the newly merged company rather than develop/source entirely new RWD-specific parts... which was the original plan.

But that is still nowhere near being the same thing as “the LX platform which started out life as an E class chassis”.

AfromanGTO > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/03/2016 at 15:49

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20% of the car is still a lot of the car, and it is still used the E class floor pan and major suspension components. From the first link you listed (I didn’t know they used the same seats too.):

“Though Chrysler had already chosen rear wheel drive before the merger, hooking up with Mercedes allowed the use of existing technologies, including the A580 electronic automatic , and Mercedes’ stability control, steering, rear suspensions, electronics, and seats . The rear suspension / differential is a module isolated from the body. The front suspension is cradle mounted and has dual ball joints in the lower links for added tuning ability. A telematic system similar to OnStar, but interacting with your cell-phone if you have AT&T wireless, was optional (it later morphed into UConnect and worked with any cell phone via BlueTooth). European offerings had a diesel option. The LX cars used the Mercedes E class traction control, electronic stability systems, axles, wire harnesses, automatic transmissions (with five speeds rather than six), steering columns, and other major suspension components.

The decision may have been made to go rwd, but like the article stated they would have taken much longer without Mercedes.

It still used the E class chassis no matter how much you want to debate about it. The floor pan, firewall, and suspension components are generally considered the chassis which is what the LX platform used from Mercedes. Chrysler just basically put on different bodies and engines while using Mercedes transmissions. (Being extremely general here.)

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > AfromanGTO 03/03/2016 at 18:12

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No, it isn’t an E-class chassis. It’s an updated LH chassis where they took advantage of the Mercedes parts bin.

If what you said is true, it would share a lot more than just 20% of the parts.

It should also noted that the LX also used Chrysler 4 speed automatics in RWD models:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultradriv…

You might notice how that transmission was used in exactly ZERO Mercedes products.

It was only in AWD models that the Mercedes 5 speed auto was used. And the AWD system bits were Mercedes-sourced.

If the LX cars were just “a rebodied e-class”, why would they ever use a Chrysler 4 speed automatic that was never designed for the W210 or W211 E-class chassis?

The W210/W211 wheel bases were 111.5/112.4 inches. The LX cars had a 120" for the 300/Magnum/Charger and 116" for the Challenger.

If the LX cars were “just rebodied E-classes”, why would the wheel base be different?

The answer is that the LX chassis is not a carbon copy of the E-class chassis as many like you falsely believe.